Mopar, Pony, Muscle...

[mopar]

Gekko, complimenti per le auto....gran bella la Challenger...una muslcecar vera...

[bronzo]

Paolo ha espresso il mio pensiero...se ne era parlato oggi pomeriggio insieme...le definizioni non sono così fondamentali. Chi se ne intende, sa cosa è una musclecar senza bisogno delle definizioni. Chi non lo sa, cerca di spacciare per musclecar qualsiasi auto costruita negli anni 60/70/80...per molti anche una Charger 318 è una musclecar....come una Camaro 80....o una Mustang 65.

Una Hemicuda o una Boss 429 si sono trovate in un epoca in cui si erano mescolate le carte, per cui le ponycar erano cresciute parecchio di dimensioni e di motorizzazioni, avvicinandosi alle musclecar originarie. Una Hemicuda pesava più di una GTO del 64, era di poco più corta ed aveva molti più cavalli. per cui la definizione originaria ovviamente non era più appilcabile. Allo stesso modo, una Fury GT 440 six pack del 70 aveva 390 hp,. era di poco più grossa di una Charger e pesava grosso modo lo stesso. Non sarebbe una musclecar? Eppure la GT era una full size, anche se di dimensioni ridotte rispetto ad una Bonneville...come la si definisce?

Io non mi fossilizzerei troppo sulle definizioni...chi sa non ha bisogno di definire....

 

Ho cercato di sintetizzare sperando che ampliassi il discorso...

[Adriano S.]

Piacere Mopar ho sentito parlare di te svariate volte sul forum anche quando lo seguivo da non iscritto .. Alla fine quindi direi

Che le definizioni di Floyd garrett e di David Newhardt corrispondano alle tue in linea di massima . Cmq sia io quello

Che avevo da dire ho scritto precedentemente.. Su questo thread..

[Adriano S.]

E grazie per il parco macchine.. Fine OT

[Ricky426]

Vedo che ha funzionato, e anche in fretta, ciò che ho scritto.


A essere gentili non si ottiene un caz.o, a fare il primo post str0nzo in 9 anni di forum ti ho svegliato dal letargo.

[mopar]

Ricky, ti faccio presente che scrivo se ne ho voglia , se l'argomento mi interessa e se ho qualcosa da dire ...non se mi provochi tu.

[Ricky426]

Sarà stata una coincidenza, meglio così è meglio tornare a parlare di macchine.

[Guest]

Bon, allora qualsiasi bara su ruote (che va forte sul dritto, sterza male e frena poco) si può considerare una MUSCLE CAR!!!!! :zsarcastic4xx:

La mia Harley è una muscle car.

[Pex]

 

Bon, allora qualsiasi bara su ruote (che va forte sul dritto, sterza male e frena poco) si può considerare una MUSCLE CAR!!!!! :zsarcastic4xx:

La mia Harley è una muscle car.
 

Ci avrei scommesso! :zsarcastic4xx:

[t.bird]

filmato......cliccaci sopra.....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCOpx2Ix5A

 

t.bird

[Guest]

Tutti sentiamo la mancanza di Antonello , sobrio , competente , imparziale , marziano ed insostituibile , credo che il rovescio della medaglia di ogni situazione sia sempre da tenere in considerazione , il mondo è pieno di duri , mancano quelli veri però !

 

Ciao Antonello il Forum senza di te non è mai stato più lo stesso , rileggerti mi ha fatto sentire bene . 

[Adriano S.]

Ecco la risposta tardiva di Leslie Mark Kendall , direttore del "Petersen Automotive Museum" a LA :

poi allego anche sotto un articolo che scrisse sull'argomento: 

 

Dear Dr. Sinicco: 

 

Thank you for your message and for giving us a bit of time to get back to you.  As it happens, there is no simple definition for the term “muscle car”, but most enthusiasts agree that such vehicles embody the following characteristics: 

 

American in origin

Manufactured during the mid-1950s through early-1970s

Equipped with extremely large V-8 engines

High horsepower ratings

Excellent straight-line performance and acceleration

Easily modified for drag strip competition

 

As you can see, the size of a vehicle is less important than the size of the engine.  Attached is my article on muscle cars in general that might help shed additional light on the matter.  Please let me know if we can help with anything else.

 

Very best regards,

 

Leslie Mark Kendall

Curator

Petersen Automotive Museum

6060 Wilshire Blvd.

Los Angeles, CA 90036

 

 

Articolo scritto da lui :

 

American Musclecars:  Power to the People

Petersen Quarterly Article

By Leslie Kendall

 

Musclecars are American vehicles built from the mid-1950s to the early 1970s equipped with large, powerful engines providing exceptional straight-line acceleration. Although such engines had powered luxury cars since the early 1950s, they had been a necessity brought about by the need to propel heavy vehicles with power-draining refinements such as air conditioning, air suspension compressors, power steering pumps and other add-ons. Though potent, they did not offer the same kind of raw, visceral driving experience or race-winning potential that musclecars did. Nor did they distinguish their owners as youthful, progressive and rebellious. Musclecars were as much about image as they were about performance.

 

Most historians consider the 1955 Chrysler C300 to be the first musclecar. Unlike cars before it, the 300 appealed to buyers seeking outright performance, not luxury, economy or roominess. The name even proclaimed its horsepower rating, reminding both the driver and other motorists of its capabilities. Keeping with Chrysler’s tradition of advanced engineering, their C300 was powered by a 331-cubic inch Hemi engine that debuted in Saratogas and New Yorkers in 1951. Designed to employ a highly efficient hemispherical combustion chamber shape, hence the “Hemi” designation, the engine was both compact and powerful for its size. These traits were appreciated by racing aficionados, and the Chrysler C300 took both the NASCAR and AAA stock car championships during its first year of production. By 1959, the Hemi had grown to 392 cubic inches before being replaced by the 400-horsepower 413 Wedge in the 1959 300-F. In its ultimate form, the Wedge had a 426-cubic inch displacement and produced a ground-pounding 425 horsepower. It was last offered in the final Chrysler Letter Car, the 1965 300-L.  

 

Ford, Chevrolet and AMC were quick to take notice of the attention that the Chrysler 300 series was receiving. Desiring to keep pace with Chrysler—both literally and figuratively—these automakers soon followed with performance versions of their own large cars. Though Ford offered a supercharged engine in 1957 rated at a healthy 300 horsepower, it was expensive, too exotic for the average buyer, and drew few orders. Chevrolet debuted a fuel-injected engine that same year, which, though potent, met with the same customer resistance. AMC planned to offer fuel injection on its 1957 Rambler Rebel, but the system could not be made reliable and was never listed.  By the early 1960s, all manufacturers came to realize that traditionally engineered motors, which were easier and cheaper to build, buy and service, could all be made potent by effecting one simple change: increasing their displacement.      

 

Reasoning that the awesome power of engines like the Chrysler Hemi, Ford 402, Chevrolet 409 and AMC 390 was misapplied in large cars like those of the Chrysler 300 series, engineers eventually began to install their most potent big-block engines in smaller, lighter midsize cars to the delight of enthusiasts. This change in approach first came about when engineer John Z. DeLorean circumvented a General Motors corporate edict not to put big-block engines in midsize cars. Though frowned upon by management, his decision to do so 

was popular with young and youthful-thinking buyers seeking distinctive transportation at a moderate price. It marked the beginning of the performance era and inspired Ford, Chrysler, AMC, and all other GM divisions except Cadillac to follow.

 

In 1964 Ford installed a 427-cubic inch engine into a Fairlane to create the legendary Thunderbolt, but few were made. To better compete in the market that came to be defined by the Pontiac GTO, they devised a way to install the hefty 390-cubic inch V-8 in the 1966 Fairlane and, one year later, the Mustang. Building upon the initial positive public reaction, derivatives of the 390-, 427-, 428- and 429-cubic inch engines were installed in Fords and Mercurys with intimidating names like Super Cobra Jet, Mach I, Cyclone, and Eliminator. Suspensions were enhanced to better cope with the added stresses of the ever more powerful engines. Spoilers, hood- and side-scoops, and modified front sheetmetal were available to those serious about achieving top performance on oval tracks and at the drag strip. Like other manufacturers, Ford offered most of the equipment that made them competitive to the general public.

 

Having started the musclecar phenomenon with their understated Hemi-powered C300 in 1955, Chrysler maintained a high profile during the musclecar era by building some of the wildest, most attention-getting vehicles of the day. At first restrained in appearance, many early Max Wedge-equipped Plymouths and Dodges could easily be mistaken for bottom-of-the-line sedans bought by humble librarians and economy-minded traveling salesmen.  But by the late 1960s, their mostly bland colors and stripped-down appearance gave way to vibrant paint schemes accented by flashy graphics, gaping hood scoops and radical aerodynamic enhancements like the special nosepieces and soaring spoilers found on Plymouth Superbirds and Dodge Daytonas. Yet the most memorable component of the Chrysler Corporation musclecar arsenal was the extraordinary Hemi engine, which enjoyed a brief, but spectacular revival between 1966 and 1971.     

 

Although American Motors began the 1960s with a stodgy image, the firm was quick to recognize the need to offer cars that could hold their own against competing makes in the musclecar market segment. To bolster their image, they engaged Roger Penske to campaign Javelins in the Trans Am series and won a championship. Driver Mark Donohue even lent his name to a special Javelin model. Other offerings included the unexpectedly stylish AMX, the only mass-produced, domestic two-seater to share the market with Chevrolet’s Corvette since the 1957 Ford Thunderbird. Available in colors with menacing names like Big Bad Orange, Big Bad Blue and Big Bad Green, the nimble cars could be equipped with engines ranging in size up to 390 cubic inches. They were in production from 1968 through 1970. During the run of the AMX, two graphics-laden, one-year-only models debuted: the 1969 Hurst SC/Rambler and the 1970 Rebel Machine. Both specials featured patriotic red, white and blue paint schemes that seemed entirely appropriate for a firm with “American” in its name.  

 

By the early 1970s, demand for fast cars began to dwindle because of escalating insurance rates, increasingly strict emissions controls and rising gasoline prices.  Consumer tastes 

shifted rapidly and the cars that once captured the public imagination and helped build showroom traffic came to be regarded as socially irresponsible. Many were scrapped after only a few years or were allowed to deteriorate in overgrown fields or storage yards open to the elements. But the loss of interest was only temporary. About 20 years after the last musclecars rolled off the line in the early 1970s, a new appreciation for their place in motoring history brought about a renewed interest in musclecars. Since few musclecars have known histories or survive in good original condition, collectors and enthusiasts have since organized clubs and registries to help them with restorations or establish a vehicle’s authenticity.  The record prices realized for the most highly prized examples like Hemi ‘Cuda Convertibles, COPO Camaros, and 428 Super Cobra Jet Shelby Mustangs, make establishing a car’s provenance essential.  

 

Although the last musclecars were built more than three decades ago, they continue to captivate enthusiasts and can still outperform many highly esteemed modern cars. Their bold engineering, unbridled power, flashy graphics, and inventive body modifications set them apart and call to mind an era when Detroit first came to realize that the power-enhancing modifications employed for years by backyard hot rodders could unlock the potential of their otherwise ordinary engines. The Petersen Automotive Museum Musclecars: Power to the People exhibition will present a variety of musclecars, both street and racing, built by all four major manufacturers: Ford, Chrysler, General Motors and American Motors. Together, they exemplify the carefree spirit of an optimistic age and today are among the best-remembered and most coveted cars on the road. 

[BLACK CAT]

che bello finalmente un autorita che conferma questa cosa...

 

:clapclap: :clapclap: :clapclap: :clapclap: :clapclap: :clapclap:

 

ora posso partire tranquillo......

 

 

Ecco la risposta tardiva di Leslie Mark Kendall , direttore del "Petersen Automotive Museum" a LA :

poi allego anche sotto un articolo che scrisse sull'argomento: 

 

Dear Dr. Sinicco: 

 

Thank you for your message and for giving us a bit of time to get back to you.  As it happens, there is no simple definition for the term “muscle car”, but most enthusiasts agree that such vehicles embody the following characteristics: 

 

American in origin

Manufactured during the mid-1950s through early-1970s

Equipped with extremely large V-8 engines

High horsepower ratings

Excellent straight-line performance and acceleration

Easily modified for drag strip competition

 

As you can see, the size of a vehicle is less important than the size of the engine.  Attached is my article on muscle cars in general that might help shed additional light on the matter.  Please let me know if we can help with anything else.

 

Very best regards,

 

Leslie Mark Kendall

Curator

Petersen Automotive Museum

6060 Wilshire Blvd.

Los Angeles, CA 90036

 

 

Articolo scritto da lui :

 

American Musclecars:  Power to the People

Petersen Quarterly Article

By Leslie Kendall

 

Musclecars are American vehicles built from the mid-1950s to the early 1970s equipped with large, powerful engines providing exceptional straight-line acceleration. Although such engines had powered luxury cars since the early 1950s, they had been a necessity brought about by the need to propel heavy vehicles with power-draining refinements such as air conditioning, air suspension compressors, power steering pumps and other add-ons. Though potent, they did not offer the same kind of raw, visceral driving experience or race-winning potential that musclecars did. Nor did they distinguish their owners as youthful, progressive and rebellious. Musclecars were as much about image as they were about performance.

 

Most historians consider the 1955 Chrysler C300 to be the first musclecar. Unlike cars before it, the 300 appealed to buyers seeking outright performance, not luxury, economy or roominess. The name even proclaimed its horsepower rating, reminding both the driver and other motorists of its capabilities. Keeping with Chrysler’s tradition of advanced engineering, their C300 was powered by a 331-cubic inch Hemi engine that debuted in Saratogas and New Yorkers in 1951. Designed to employ a highly efficient hemispherical combustion chamber shape, hence the “Hemi” designation, the engine was both compact and powerful for its size. These traits were appreciated by racing aficionados, and the Chrysler C300 took both the NASCAR and AAA stock car championships during its first year of production. By 1959, the Hemi had grown to 392 cubic inches before being replaced by the 400-horsepower 413 Wedge in the 1959 300-F. In its ultimate form, the Wedge had a 426-cubic inch displacement and produced a ground-pounding 425 horsepower. It was last offered in the final Chrysler Letter Car, the 1965 300-L.  

 

Ford, Chevrolet and AMC were quick to take notice of the attention that the Chrysler 300 series was receiving. Desiring to keep pace with Chrysler—both literally and figuratively—these automakers soon followed with performance versions of their own large cars. Though Ford offered a supercharged engine in 1957 rated at a healthy 300 horsepower, it was expensive, too exotic for the average buyer, and drew few orders. Chevrolet debuted a fuel-injected engine that same year, which, though potent, met with the same customer resistance. AMC planned to offer fuel injection on its 1957 Rambler Rebel, but the system could not be made reliable and was never listed.  By the early 1960s, all manufacturers came to realize that traditionally engineered motors, which were easier and cheaper to build, buy and service, could all be made potent by effecting one simple change: increasing their displacement.      

 

Reasoning that the awesome power of engines like the Chrysler Hemi, Ford 402, Chevrolet 409 and AMC 390 was misapplied in large cars like those of the Chrysler 300 series, engineers eventually began to install their most potent big-block engines in smaller, lighter midsize cars to the delight of enthusiasts. This change in approach first came about when engineer John Z. DeLorean circumvented a General Motors corporate edict not to put big-block engines in midsize cars. Though frowned upon by management, his decision to do so 

was popular with young and youthful-thinking buyers seeking distinctive transportation at a moderate price. It marked the beginning of the performance era and inspired Ford, Chrysler, AMC, and all other GM divisions except Cadillac to follow.

 

In 1964 Ford installed a 427-cubic inch engine into a Fairlane to create the legendary Thunderbolt, but few were made. To better compete in the market that came to be defined by the Pontiac GTO, they devised a way to install the hefty 390-cubic inch V-8 in the 1966 Fairlane and, one year later, the Mustang. Building upon the initial positive public reaction, derivatives of the 390-, 427-, 428- and 429-cubic inch engines were installed in Fords and Mercurys with intimidating names like Super Cobra Jet, Mach I, Cyclone, and Eliminator. Suspensions were enhanced to better cope with the added stresses of the ever more powerful engines. Spoilers, hood- and side-scoops, and modified front sheetmetal were available to those serious about achieving top performance on oval tracks and at the drag strip. Like other manufacturers, Ford offered most of the equipment that made them competitive to the general public.

 

Having started the musclecar phenomenon with their understated Hemi-powered C300 in 1955, Chrysler maintained a high profile during the musclecar era by building some of the wildest, most attention-getting vehicles of the day. At first restrained in appearance, many early Max Wedge-equipped Plymouths and Dodges could easily be mistaken for bottom-of-the-line sedans bought by humble librarians and economy-minded traveling salesmen.  But by the late 1960s, their mostly bland colors and stripped-down appearance gave way to vibrant paint schemes accented by flashy graphics, gaping hood scoops and radical aerodynamic enhancements like the special nosepieces and soaring spoilers found on Plymouth Superbirds and Dodge Daytonas. Yet the most memorable component of the Chrysler Corporation musclecar arsenal was the extraordinary Hemi engine, which enjoyed a brief, but spectacular revival between 1966 and 1971.     

 

Although American Motors began the 1960s with a stodgy image, the firm was quick to recognize the need to offer cars that could hold their own against competing makes in the musclecar market segment. To bolster their image, they engaged Roger Penske to campaign Javelins in the Trans Am series and won a championship. Driver Mark Donohue even lent his name to a special Javelin model. Other offerings included the unexpectedly stylish AMX, the only mass-produced, domestic two-seater to share the market with Chevrolet’s Corvette since the 1957 Ford Thunderbird. Available in colors with menacing names like Big Bad Orange, Big Bad Blue and Big Bad Green, the nimble cars could be equipped with engines ranging in size up to 390 cubic inches. They were in production from 1968 through 1970. During the run of the AMX, two graphics-laden, one-year-only models debuted: the 1969 Hurst SC/Rambler and the 1970 Rebel Machine. Both specials featured patriotic red, white and blue paint schemes that seemed entirely appropriate for a firm with “American” in its name.  

 

By the early 1970s, demand for fast cars began to dwindle because of escalating insurance rates, increasingly strict emissions controls and rising gasoline prices.  Consumer tastes 

shifted rapidly and the cars that once captured the public imagination and helped build showroom traffic came to be regarded as socially irresponsible. Many were scrapped after only a few years or were allowed to deteriorate in overgrown fields or storage yards open to the elements. But the loss of interest was only temporary. About 20 years after the last musclecars rolled off the line in the early 1970s, a new appreciation for their place in motoring history brought about a renewed interest in musclecars. Since few musclecars have known histories or survive in good original condition, collectors and enthusiasts have since organized clubs and registries to help them with restorations or establish a vehicle’s authenticity.  The record prices realized for the most highly prized examples like Hemi ‘Cuda Convertibles, COPO Camaros, and 428 Super Cobra Jet Shelby Mustangs, make establishing a car’s provenance essential.  

 

Although the last musclecars were built more than three decades ago, they continue to captivate enthusiasts and can still outperform many highly esteemed modern cars. Their bold engineering, unbridled power, flashy graphics, and inventive body modifications set them apart and call to mind an era when Detroit first came to realize that the power-enhancing modifications employed for years by backyard hot rodders could unlock the potential of their otherwise ordinary engines. The Petersen Automotive Museum Musclecars: Power to the People exhibition will present a variety of musclecars, both street and racing, built by all four major manufacturers: Ford, Chrysler, General Motors and American Motors. Together, they exemplify the carefree spirit of an optimistic age and today are among the best-remembered and most coveted cars on the road. 

[Adriano S.]

 Diciamo che Bob Gaines , Jeff Sneathen , Floyd Garrett e David Newhardt , i quali avevano condiviso la medesima linea di pensiero  di Kendall , non siano proprio nomi sconosciuti nel circuito delle macchine americane   :ok:  .. mi e sembrato opportuno postare la sua riposta ( anche se ci ha impiegato quasi 2 mesi a rispondermi ) visto che aveva proprio scritto un articolo in merito ...

[jackoilrain]

Mopar è un gruppo a se che domina su tutto il resto......


Massively

OverPowered

And

Respected.....

Ma perchè sta autoconvinzione, oppure ci sono ragioni oggettive?

Mera curiosità...

[Ricky426]

Da qualche parte avevo iniziato un topic dove elencavo alcuni pregi delle Mopar rispetto a GM e FoMoCo, libero scambio di opinioni.

[jackoilrain]

Da qualche parte avevo iniziato un topic dove elencavo alcuni pregi delle Mopar rispetto a GM e FoMoCo, libero scambio di opinioni.

sono ignaro infatti, ma non parteggio per i brand, se non per le auto singolarmente per estetica/dotazione:

una challenger mi piace più di una trans am del 74, e una cuda di più di una vette dell'82,ecc

[Adriano S.]

Sono fazioni insomma , così come ci sono juventini e milanisti o intervisti .. Pro e contro in tutti i marchi e modelli , e poi la variabile de gustibus gioca anche un ruolo molto importante ..

[jackoilrain]

Sono fazioni insomma , così come ci sono juventini e milanisti o intervisti .. Pro e contro in tutti i marchi e modelli , e poi la variabile de gustibus gioca anche un ruolo molto importante ..

ho notato che su facebook gli americani delle varie pagine di classic cars, producono MEME dove si perculano tra brand, in quantità industriale, alcuni davvero divertenti

[nigel68]

 producono MEME dove si perculano 

 

 

Cosa??  :hum: